I recently purchased a almost new eastman 614 mandolin (the one with the oval soundhole). It came fitted with the factory standar pickup which I believe is a K&K Twin Mandolin Pickup.
One of the reaons I purchased it was because the reviews where so good. The mandolin itself is great, but plugged in it sounds absolutely terrible. Very boxy and muddy, a bit like a cheap car radio! We use lots of other acoustic instruments in the band and they all sound great, the pickup is definitely the problem.i suppose my question has anybody else had the same problem?also would a K&K preamp improve the sound? I dont want to spend even more money if the preamp wont change the sound drastically!thanks everyone!
Pickups and pickup systems can be as complex and individualized as the instrument itself. For the banjo, we exclusively use the K&K Twin Spot pickup. The K&K pickup is easy to install and I have them in several guitars and mandolins. The banjo version is especially easy on an open back banjo and I ended up permanently mounting the 1/4' jack through the pot wall. My only concern is that the pickups mute the sound slightly when playing unplugged.
I'm by no means an expert on the electronics side of things, but general consensus is that most of this type of pickup require a preamp. I use the LR Baggs Venue DI with good results, though usually with a Baggs soundhole pickup on Guitar. I generally play at church, so a mike usually suffices for me.If you bought from TMS, Folk Musician, Elderly, etc, you should call to discuss with them, possibly even while you're plugged in so they can hear the problem. Of course, others with far more experience will chime in as well.Hope you find a simple and relatively inexpensive solution! It's frustrating when you want plug and play simplicity and don't get it!
As Pat McManus said, 'it's all about sequences.' Got the k and k in a Loar 600. Straight through a Schertler amp it sounds fine. I also have the k and k preamp, which through other systems helps to boost it a bit and lets you configure the sound to your liking. How ever, they did take a bit of getting used to. Prior to that I used guitars with the under saddle pick ups.
Which through the Schertler sound great. I was expecting the k and k to work the same, but they are different beasts. They can be very percussive, since they are mounted to the sound board, any tapping while picking comes through clearly. Took a while to correct my playing.I would like to think that the folks at Eastman do so many of these installations that they put the pick ups in the right spot. I guess it's possible that they might have placed the, a bit off from where they should be, or maybe one is not adhered as well as it should be. I would plug it into a few systems and play with the gain and eq.
If it doesn't correct it, have them service it. I use a LR Bagga Para DI which has several features to shape the tone.
I use it with a banjo also which requires a very different setup on the Para DI.OP: I concur with texas paul, rockies and almeria. I have a Rigel with piezo/transducer type pickup (I believe that's what it is-its what Rigel supplies stock), and it has a low output signal and sounded very boxy and had a high end shrillness, which simply didn't sound 'natural'. I would best describe it as unnaturally harsh, microphonic. I presume it is what is referred to as an ultra high impedence out put.Yes, the tone difference is huge with a good di, imho.After an inquiry here, just a couple of weeks back, I tried my friend's LR Baggs paracoustic di (the small brown box version), and then,bought the nicer Baggs Venue, same as above but with boost and tuner/mute ( and sparkly cool green tuner lights-LOL)-holy moly!!! What a difference these make.here's why, imho;a you can boost gain if signal is low, as in mine.
(This low signal was nice into my 5E3 with its either low at '2' and full blast at '3' and beyond volume control, but otherwise a disaster.)b you can adjust volume, from the stage since you don't have a vol knob on the mando I presume.c you can adjust bass, two ranges of mids, treble and high treble, as well as having an adjustable freq specific notch filter to avoid feedback. This is the essence of the thing, because you can get that acoustic fullness without too much treble, and, adjust bass to avoid feedback howling. This is where you shape the tone and it is huge. It took away all the box and shrillness, that overly bright percussiveness too from my Rigel.d you can mute when tuning (the display is brilliantly bright, if a bit slow to respond to a mando-i still prefer my headstock tuner, but the mute is great)e it works with acoustic/electric guitars too as wellf you have some control from the stage re volume, boost and mute. Really nice if youre into an amp instead of having a soundman, or, the soundman is an idiot or asleep.g the boost, simply a higher volume level, is adjustable, so you can do just a touch for solos, barely noticeable, but more forward in the mix.
Not eddie vanhalen.h the Baggs had a phase inverter, which, simply, in one position or another, sound better-one will sound a bbit thinner than the other in any given PA.so, you say, how can I be sure?take your mando to Guitar Center, along with 9v battery, and1 try out the baggs DIs, also,2 try your mando into an acoustic amplifier, and experiment with the tone controls and notch filter.this is really important, as the eq is essential, and, changes with each instrument, venue, etc.why the amp suggestion? Well, simply the Baggs are 150-250 respectively, and a decent used acoustic amp can be had. (fwiw I bought my Roland cube 80x for my jazz guitar, for $200 delivered, as it sounds like a Roland Jazz Chorus amp tone is pretty neutral and clean-like a warm twin, and is portable, pretty damned loud, good headroom, and good to great with acoustics too).(this from a tube amp devote').otoh, the Di boxes are also great into an PA board. Since, depending on circumstances, I play both ways, street festivals, lousy bars, beer gardens, or nicer venues, I bought the Baggs, instead of another dedicated amp.yes the Baggs DIs are pricey. As much as the pickup, an amp, or, a small upper quality pencil type instrument mic. I bought my Baggs Venue used and saved about 35% from discounted new retail, from guitar canker. An active preamp is pretty critical for a passive piezo.
The other night I was at an open mic playing through the house pa. The person running the board asked if my p/u was passive or active; I told him passive, he set the system, and my Rigel has rarely sounded as nice gigging out.FWIW, even a basic preamp will do. I love my Baggs Venue DI for all sorts of reasons, but you don't need something that extensive. Clearly the K&K preamp is a great choice, but start around $100 for a non-XLR option. One inexpensive solution is to find an old Fishman G II online that will work well enough and then some.
Let's all agree that any pickup is very unlikely to sound natural on its own, as it is not a mic from 3 ft away, etc.In my experience nearly 100% of pickups benefit from a midrange cut. I have the Baggs Para DI, and I pull 1.2K Hz down all the way, occasionally shifting a bit higher or lower frequency, depending on the speaker and/or PA.
I also pull the treble down a lot. And this is for not a piezo but a magnetic pickup, although I found nearly the same curve worked well for a Barbera-bridge fiddle and an Ithaca Strings electric viola.While the impedance question is not trivial, it is far from the complete solution, as with perfect matching you still do not have a natural sound, by definition. And the speaker and amp being used adds more color that may not be appropriate. So EQ is essential, and it can be dramatic. Caution not necessary, try large shifts to see where the sound you like resides. If you are getting a really bad sound from an active BSS DI, I'd carefully check the rest of the signal chain and EQ setting on the console.
BSS are a high grade DI and usually work just fine with K&K transducers. Test the signal chain if possible with some other instruments that have passive transducers, and also check your mandolin straight into a acoustic amp for comparison.Whether you need a preamp with onboard EQ is largely down to how good the channel EQ is on the console. If it is good, you really just need a buffer amp/DI to provide a suitable input impedance and convert to balanced. Any EQ (including parametric and notch filtering) can then be done 'in console'. If you only have basic EQ on your console, then a full fledged EQ option on a preamp/DI is probably essential. I have been through the same issues with kk pups.They are great natural sounding pups. But shouldNot be plugged into anything that does not haveA 1mohm 1 megaohm input impedance.
You willHave to research your bss di to see what that is.The baggs stuff i beleive is all 10mohm. WhichWill sound ok but not as good as 1mohm.This is why kk preamps match so good with kkPups. I once had it explained to me this way.If you take a firehose and try to force the waterThrough a garden hose your going to lose alotOf water.like stuffing a 10 lb pig in a 5 lb sack.Once your impedance is matched you can workOn the eq to dial in your sound.
I have a twin in my ellis a and plugged directly in sounds terrible.But through a 1mohm set felix preamp its wonderful. I also play it through the kk pure xlr preamp at times and it sounds good as well.Going from line level (1/4 inch jack) to mic level(Xlr cable) helps immeasurably. Good luck.AfterLearning to play and getting the songs down i findPlaying with equipment and searching for that grailThe most fun.must be flying my geek flag. Not necessarily.We need to understand the terminology being used here.Mixing desks have preamps built in. That is what pre-amplifies the mic level signal before additional processing (EQ then power amp). This is normally on a balanced XLR.
The problem is that K&K's put out an UNBALANCED signal and also require a very high impedance input. Mic level XLR's normally offer only around 600 Ohms. Your pickup is looking for at least 1 million Ohms (1 Meg).So - directly incompatible. If you use a DI box that has a 1 Meg input impedance, this a) Matches the transducer nicely and b) Converts from unbalanced to balanced output. Result: now compatible.
All the gain you need is available from the preamp on the mixing desk.I do not use anything other than 'simple' DI boxes for passive transducers. Mostly Orchid Electronics or Triton Audio, though I have a couple of Radials too. The Orchids are 1 Meg, the Triton is a whopping 7.5 Meg (but is not necessary in most cases). The output from these goes into the XLR's of my consoles. All the EQ is done there.Your active BSS DI is 1 Meg so should be fine.
If it is not, there is a problem somewhere. Faulty transducers, bad install, faulty DI box. Needs to be tracked down.
Ha!i think it's because this is a hard question. I always have an opinion (hopefully thoughtful and qualified ) when it comes to pickups and electronics, but i didn't have a good answer here either.banjos are just a bitch to amplify; as loud as they are acoustically, any pickup just tends to turn the head into one giant microphone, making gain-before-feedback a pain.i've installed plenty of the fishman 'rare earth banjo' magnetic pickups, and they do OK, but i'm not wildly in love with them. Head-mounted contact pickups like the macintyre or K&K tend to be pretty quiet and feedback-y.there's that one concept of a humbucker (complete with output jack) built right into a replacement head; loud and reasonably feedback-resistant (i still had to stuff the back with foam for one customer) but at the cost of totally killing the actual acoustic sound of the banjo. For some reason, a banjo seems to be a difficult instrument to amplify well. The best I've found is the Schatten BJ-02 Pro.
It's one of the only ones I've found with a volume control. It's pretty natural-sounding and it's easy to install yourself. That being said, if you have the option of a mic, try an Audio-Technica ATM350 clip-on mic. That is a great mic; it works on upright bass, brass instruments, and resonator guitar in addition to banjo. You can clip it on to the resonator of your banjo and aim it toward the drum head for a warmer tone or at the metal resonator for a brighter tone. It also doesn't feedback too easily. I've read a lot of great reviews of the Schatten, but I use a Fishman (not the Rare Earth - this is an older model) so I need to use a stompbox preamp.
Actually, I use two; the first one is always on, the second one is for a solo volume boost. If I had the Rare Earth, I might not need the first one.Anyway, the tone is pretty good and I can get good volume without feedback by either making sure the monitor is not facing the head, or by using an amp behind me and leaving the banjo out of the monitors altogether.
I have no problem competing with drums and electric guitars.If you have a really loud stage, you can also stuff the pot with towels. This will help cut down on any ringing (I know a guy who plays banjo in a very loud jam band, and this is what he does) - you'll still want to make sure the monitors aren't aimed at the banjo head.